Annaliese Puccini fought for Arie’s heart on The Bachelor and then returned twice to Mexico in Bachelor in Paradise.
Annaliese sits down with us to discuss The Bachelor, hanging out at Bachelor Mansion and the emotions that run wild there, publishing her new book she wrote over COVID, and life during these strange times.
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Alice: Cool. Great, just press record. Awesome. Well, Annaliese, it is so nice to have you on the podcast. I am kind of fangirling here with my love of The Bachelor. Welcome to the podcast.
Annaliese Puccini: Thanks for having me. I know we chatted, I don’t know, months ago, I feel like so, I’m happy to finally be face to face kind of and chatting with you.
Alice: Yeah, we’re so excited to have you here and for our audience to hear what you have to say, which is exciting. I just want to start things off with, tell us about where you’re living now.
Annaliese: I’ve been in San Francisco, I’ve since The Bachelor been all over the place. I think that’s something that actually a lot of people didn’t know about me is I’ve always been a bit of a wanderlust. I’m from Northern California originally, from the San Francisco Bay Area but I travel a lot in, live all over the world. I was actually living in Maui for 9 months during the pandemic and I moved back in June. Almost a year ago I’ve been back in San Francisco. I still try to hop up to Tahoe and get my adventure fixed in, but yeah, up in San Francisco.
Alice: Oh my gosh, that is amazing. I can’t believe you lived in Maui. I feel like I did the pandemic wrong.
Annaliese: I mean, I don’t know if there’s a right or wrong way to do it, but yeah, I was in San Francisco for a bit at the beginning of it. I was like– everything shut down, it was a total ghost town, and it was just like very depressing. I was spending a lot of time in Tahoe, and because that’s like a second home for me so that was great; but then everything was shutting down up there too, then you’re just like in the mountains in a cabin and you’re just isolated. I was in a relationship at the time and it was like, well, where can we go where we can still feel very like normal? That was the place that we had chosen.
Alice: That’s amazing. Wow. Originally, I’m from New York City. I kind of did the whole thing of flying back and forth between California and there because, like you said, like San Francisco, it was no one was there. Very dystopia-like, which is very creepy.
Annaliese: Right, I went to Hofstra on Long Island. I got a lot of friends in New York and they were saying the same thing. They were like, it was just a weird post-apocalyptic, very strange world to be there.
Alice: Yeah. Annaliese, I didn’t know you went to Hofstra my sister went there.
Annaliese: No way.
Alice: Yeah. She’s been on the volleyball team.
Annaliese: So cool.
Alice: Yeah, it’s such a lovely area. I love Garden City.
Annaliese: Yeah, I know. It feels like forever ago.
Alice: Yeah, for me too. Let’s move fast that.
Annaliese: Yeah, it was great. No, I actually did really enjoy college and I love my time in New York. I spent a couple of years living in the city after and I loved it. I mean, I’m so grateful now because I have all these friendships back there. It does give me a great excuse to go back, but all my friends, of course now have moved, it’s like San Francisco moved out of the city because they’re all onto the marriage and babies phase of their life. They’re in the suburbs, but it’s still, I mean, it’s great.
Alice: Yeah. Speaking of marriage and family, you signed up for The Bachelor you were on Arie season. Can you talk about that process? What was the audition like? What made you sign up for The Bachelor?
Annaliese: It was a very weird time, I was 32 and I was single and I was just, I don’t know, there’s so much going on in my life, but I was starting my own business. I had just bought a house and was in the middle of remodeling it. I had just done a six months solo trip.
I was doing a lot of crazy stuff. My head wasn’t really in it, but I was single and I got a phone call one day saying, “We just had five people in our office so you need to find this girl and get a hold of her.” I was like–I mean, there’s no way they’re going to make me. That was my first time. I’m just going to go along with it. I’ll see where this goes, and, but I mean, as I said, I was doing so much stuff outside of that.
It really wasn’t a priority for me at all. I remember I hadn’t told anyone because I was a little bit like, I don’t want to hear what people are going to say about it. I was a little embarrassed that I was even going through with the audition. I had just gone on a big trip with my family. We’ve gotten back from Africa and I got a call. Then a week later, I left basically.
But yeah, the audition process was just it was one of those things that they kept calling me and they kept saying like, “We’d like to invite you to this next round.”, but it was a 6-month process for me, it was a long audition process. That’s why I didn’t really tell people either because when they first contacted me, it was probably in March or something. We left for filming in September.
That entire time, there are so many girls that go after this, there are so many girls they’re talking to, and I’m like, “Whatever, I’m not going to get my hopes up or get too excited or tell people.” Then they were like, “Do you want to come?” I’m like, “I mean, why not?” I remember, literally, my house was gutted. My mom was like, “Your contractors, what I will tell them?” I was like, “I don’t know, I trust you. Make executive decisions here.”
But it is funny I think back on it. I’m really– my head was not in it because I worked, I was doing event planning, my schedule was super busy with that. I did an event until I think 2 am the night before I had to leave to go film.
Annaliese: I just wasn’t I think as much as I wanted to be. I didn’t give myself time to zen out and prepare for it mentally, I think. I just went into it with all these outside stressors. Yeah.
Alice: That’s amazing.
Annaliese: Back on it now and I’m like, “Wow, that’s great.”
Alice: Yeah, and of course, that’s just part of your story, because, as you said, you’re a wanderer, you have your own event planning business, you just wrote a book, which is amazing. But I know that’s what our audience knows you from. Then you were also on The Bachelor in Paradise twice. Can you talk about going to Mexico and what that was like?
Annaliese: I mean, was just bizarre. Again, “how is this happening?” because I was then 33 when I went to Paradise. It’s just not at all what I imagined for my younger self, but it was so fun. I think the reason I went the first time was just like, I know who I am at the core and how I was presented in The Bachelor, I don’t know, I think there was just a part of me that wanted my own little redemption story. I had so many friends who were like, “I couldn’t even watch you on The Bachelor because it just wasn’t you. They edited you so much.” Maybe this is a good opportunity for me to also meet a bunch of people. It was like summer camp. It was so fun.
Alice: Yeah, why not?
Annaliese: Yeah. You get so much more opportunity to get to know the girls and the guys. It really is like going to I don’t know what I would imagine, like sandals, one of those resorts where it’s a bunch of singles. You know everyone’s single and everyone’s looking potentially for a relationship and you’re just no care in the world. I mean, the producers definitely give you lots of care in the world while you’re there and you’re stressing about things you probably shouldn’t be. But you’re laying on the beach and you’re drinking and eating and it’s fun. The first time around, I really was like, “I’m going to be so open” and I think that’s an edit that I got afterward that I was really frustrated with is people were like, “You’re so desperate you’ll go for anyone.” The thing for me was, it wasn’t a desperation thing, it was that in the real world, I’m very picky. This was my opportunity to be, I’m willing to give everyone a shot. I’m going to really try my hardest to not be like, “I’m not physically attracted, so bye.” Or we had one bad conversation.
But I wanted to really try to get to know people and be as open to other types of people as possible. Then, of course, I went for my total type, which was Kamil, but I mean, that’s why we have types. Sometimes you go for what you’re attracted to in hindsight. Some of these other guys were great guys. But yeah, that was my whole agenda. I’m going to try to really be open to the process.
Then they had the second time. Again, I think I was like, “Okay, I get it now, I get what they’re doing, I get the process, I know, what’s going on.” I went back with high hopes of I got this. Then, I mean, always there are so many things not shown also on camera. It was tricky because I really was feeling confident that the second time around, I was told I was getting the rose. I was like, “Okay, cool. I’m going to continue to get to know you and date you.” Then went home, night one there. That was a bummer but at the same time again hindsight, better off part.
Alice: Yeah. What an amazing experience, just so fun to be a part of that and something like a part of your story, just like a small part.
Annaliese: Yeah, it definitely is. I think it’s kind of a double-edged sword. There’s a part of it that I love that this is part of my story, but then it is something that we are just everyday people. Then we go back into life and it does change things for sure. I know some people, they become fan favorites and get the million followers. Then they go on to having huge deals and that becomes their new reality, but then there’s also “the me” people who go back into normal life. We still get a little bit of that fun publicity and we get to go to red carpet events and stuff. That’s fun, but it’s definitely, I would say my life was pretty normal you know what I mean? It’s not glamorous at all, especially in the last couple of years.
Alice: Yeah, that sounds great. I mean, I don’t think anyone’s life was glamorous the past couple of years, which is horrible, except for yours in Maui, excuse me.
Annaliese: Well, it doesn’t lead to red carpet events. It was no makeup and no shoes. That was me for nine months.
Alice: That sounds ideal. Way better than the red carpet.
Annaliese: Yeah, exactly. I like balance, though. I think like I’ve always said I’m a bit of a renaissance woman. I like getting down and dirty, in the woods or being just this hippie, barefoot girl but then I’m also the girl that likes to get super dressed up.
Alice: That sounds great. Yeah, take you to a gala in the woods. I just have one more question about The Bachelor, and then we’ll move on to something else. We’re a period company based in women’s health and PMS. I was curious, as there are a million girls on The Bachelor, can you talk a little bit about menstruation in the house? Does everyone synch up? Is everyone PMSing at the same time?
Annaliese: Yes. It’s so funny the night that I went home on Arie season, I think I wasn’t supposed to get my period for another two weeks or something and I got it that night in the hotel after being sent home. I was just like, “Well, there you go.” If I would have known this, I could have adjusted, because I think when you know you’re getting your period, you kind of were like, “Okay, this is all part of it. I’m emotional because of this, you can rationalize a little bit more.” But this is coming out of the left field. I don’t know why I’m having these crazy emotional reactions to these things. Then yeah, I realized that. But yeah, we all synched up, I almost feel like The Bachelor producers, they know more about you probably than you know about yourself when you go in because you do psych evaluations and all of these medical things. I’m sure they knew what our cycles even were and knew how to make those times a little bit more dramatic or you know what I mean? reactions, but I definitely felt that way. It’s hard.
For me, I definitely– something I’ve really grown from a lot since all of it is this notion of comparison. I think when I first did it, after nine one I was the oldest one in the house. That just, I don’t know, messed with my head. I don’t have ageism for other people, but I definitely had it for myself. I just felt in the moment I was just really comparing everything to girls that were like Becca on my season was 22. I was 10 years older than her and he was 36 or something at the time. I was having this real issue in my own weird subconscious going on of like “He’s 36, he’s going for a 22-year-old so what’s wrong with me? Is it because I have these lines?”
Then of course, afterward I was feeling bloated and all of these things. I didn’t really realize that it was because I was getting my period. I feel like the period portion of syncing up and all of that, everyone is probably going through the same thing but we all have our own insecurities about it. I know for me, I get bloated, I get emotional, I get really cramped, I get all the symptoms out of 13. I think I was somebody who was just really feeling it.
Alice: Oh my god, I can not…
Annaliese: Nervous breakdown.
Alice: I can not even imagine being around everyone who’s PMSing. I know mine is terrible usually, so I can’t even imagine.
Annaliese: Yeah, it was not fun. Then I’m trying to think for Paradise, I don’t remember what was going on with my cycle then. I may have just missed it the whole time. I know a lot of girls that were on birth control would just skip it for the entire time, but I wasn’t ever on birth control when I was on. I stopped taking it, I want to say right around maybe 31 or something I stopped taking birth control. When I was on birth control, it was every 28 days and whatever. It was so precise. I think yes, and you could skip it and whatnot with how you’re taking your dosage. But I didn’t have that luxury.
Alice: Thank you so much for going there. I was so curious. I know our listeners will be as we talked about different menstruation issues and period poverty a lot on this podcast. Thank you.
Alice: Veering off into a different way, can you tell us about your book? Tell us what you’ve written and where we can find it.
Annaliese: It’s called AP_Unwritten, it is a collection of my art and poetry in sort of this journal. I want it to feel very much like it’s your own journal though, too. I want readers to be able to pick it up and to draw along or to be inspired to write their own poetry.
I wrote this, it was birthed out of heartbreak for me. I always say my heartbreak became my muse in a way. At the beginning of when I had moved to Maui, the guy that I was supposed to move to Maui with broke up with me days before moving there. I was quarantined in a house for two weeks by myself, in the house we were supposed to live in that we had signed a 6-month lease.
I don’t know what but I’m a creative person. All of the creative juices just started really flooding me. I couldn’t, not think in poetry, it was bizarre. That’s how I work. I am a painter, and sometimes I go through these phases where I just paint 8 hours a day and I’m in it.
Annaliese: That’s how I felt about writing and I’ve never really considered myself like a writer per se, but then I got a publisher, and months later, they were saying, “Do you have any other poems, whatever?” I looked back in my notes, I had written poetry months before. It’s just something that I think I hadn’t ever really dialed into as a full, creative outlet for me. It was just something I would do every once in a while. It’s funny because now I think, as a kid, I always would write songs.
Annaliese: It’s a form of poetry really, in a lot of ways. It’s journeying through love, heartbreak, and healing. Then for a lot of people who either know my story or don’t know it well, I think through The Bachelor process, I went through obviously a lot of heartbreak, but then outside of the show as well, I went through a lot of other heartbreaks. My dad passed away right after.
Alice: I’m so sorry.
Annaliese: Thank you. Right after, it was two weeks after Paradise, the Reunion Show had aired. I got hit with a lot of things, I just got broken up with and then my dad. There were a lot of things that were constantly hitting me and I went through a very dark point where I was feeling super depressed, and the last couple of years, I felt depression and anxiety so much more.
This was really just a way for me to hopefully connect with people who are, I mean, there are so many things that it’s hopefully connecting with people. I’m neurodiverse so it’s hopefully I write it for neurodiverse mine. It’s not complete sentences. It’s how I think. I want somebody to be able to pick it up and either be neurodiverse and feel like, “I relate to how this writing style is”. Or somebody who is going through a heartbreak, whether it be death or relationship or friendship or something like that, and be able to see themselves in it.
It’s so exciting it came out on February 22nd, it’s out, you can buy it on my LinkedIn bio and my Instagram account. It’s for sale on Amazon, but it’s so cool. I’m already having people reach out to me and send a picture of a page and just be like, “oh my gosh, this is I so resonate with it.” It’s really cool getting that feedback already from people that I know it’s helping.
Alice: Oh my gosh, that is amazing and so interesting that you were able to channel these darker times or times of Covid into something creative and something that you can help others with, which is so cool. And Annaliese, I really need this. I need this book. I am also going through heartbreak, unfortunately.
Annaliese: Oh, I’m sorry.
Alice: But that sounds great. I will be looking it up right after this.
Annaliese: Yeah, I mean, hopefully, it helps. I mean, that’s my main goal. I think it’s just a way for me to strip away a lot of the things that are very learned, especially as women like this notion of perfectionism, and I’ve always had this perfect complex. I didn’t want it to be perfect.
There are a lot of things in it that if my old self was writing it, I would have changed and wanted to be different, but I want it to really be able to speak to somebody who’s never written poetry and feel like, “I could write that also.” I also wanted to speak to people who maybe love poetry and are avid poetry readers or really familiar with it and feel like there are a couple of good ones in there, too. I want it to really speak to a wide range of people so that it can really help somebody out there and that’s really the goal, all of it.
What do they say? You’re the best teacher in the things that you’ve gone through yourself. I feel like in a lot of ways, now I’ve gone through so many hardships on my own that this is my chance to actually take my grief and turn it into something that can help other people.
Alice: Wow, that’s awesome, Annaliese, and something that we all need to look up, whether it’s what you were saying, the grief of a relationship, a death, or just even this time, I feel like everyone is grieving in some fashion, unfortunately, with the madness of the political sphere and also the pandemic.
Annaliese: Yeah absolutely.
Alice: Something you brought up while you were talking was this notion of womanhood and this idea that we’ve all been forced to be perfect all the time. Something that I always ask on this podcast is what is your definition of womanhood?
Annaliese: That’s very interesting. Wow, that’s a hard hitter one. I mean, I don’t know, I guess I’ve never really thought about it. I think it’s changing so much too, because now with non-binary or the pronouns, I feel like it’s definitely it’s not the body that you’re born into, it’s this energy of the thing that’s coming to mind is just like this energy of Mother Earth. I feel like it’s just this sort of nurturing energy that you’re connected somehow to, but then it is so hard to, I hate labeling anything.
It’s like I feel like there are men that are like that as well. I don’t want to say that but men can have feminine energy. I think being connected to your womanhood is not necessarily defined by being a woman. I do think being a woman, we can carry babies, we can do all these things that are so incredible. There’s also that aspect of it that we just are born creators. I think for everyone, it’s so different too.
Alice: Yeah, I love what you said about we’re born creators because that’s what you’re dealing with in your book of creating. Or creating your steps of life like how were saying before The Bachelor you did a million things, but womanhood of course is constantly changing. I think our definition from second to second is probably shifting and changing.
This podcast has changed from the beginning of it of being called a weekly woman to now including so many different other types of menstruators and people who identify with femininity or womanhood. I love that idea of this creator and what does that means for us as women.
Annaliese: We’re always just even for me as a woman, I feel like my definition for myself has changed a lot. Especially in the last 10 years, last 5 years, last probably six months, it’s always changing.
Alice: Yeah, as we should be, I think. That’s what’s so empowering is that we can change. Then I think, a question I also like to ask is, if a woman walked up to you and asked for your advice on anything in the world, you just met her on the street, what would you say to her?
Annaliese: It’s so funny, I had somebody from my team ask me this the other day. She was like, “Hey, oh, my God, it’s so hard.” I think this is so something that I’ve done, it’s really interesting, I think, recently is I had my brain studied because I’m neurodiverse. I think there are just certain questions like this that I can not it almost just becomes jello in my brain. I can’t figure, I can’t picture who that person is. But I know that if I saw somebody if this did happen because it’s happened plenty of times before where I’ve had to either jump into action and actually help somebody or somebody ask them for some sort of advice.
Specifics I’m really good at, but the generalness of it, I have a hard time. That’s me being fully honest and real with you. I don’t know. I think I would probably give really good advice, though.
Alice: That’s great, yeah. A more specific kind, yeah.
Annaliese: I know, I don’t know. It’s so weird, I think the thing that’s cool about learning about yourself and how your brain works, specifically me because my brain just works differently is, I’m trying to own it a lot more. I think I’ve so much of my life had to and that’s part of the perfectionism part of me is that I’m really good at pretending like I understand or showing up and being present and all of these things, but it’s so much work and it’s very exhausting for me.
I’m trying just to be a lot more honest about that because it’s the truth. I think it’s important because I’m realizing how many people when I do bring these kinds of things up, how many people are like, “I’m the same way”. I’m good at, I think on The Bachelor and people I’ve done so many podcasts and things. I’m good at like on the fly coming up with things. But it’s exhausting
Annaliese: For my brain to do that. I mean, I’m sure it is for other people, too. But yeah, so I don’t know.
Alice: That’s great, that you can be a voice for people who are neurodiverse and have this book that’s coming out. Hopefully, you’re saying that people can read it, but also just tell your story and tell us how we all are different.
Annaliese: Yeah. I mean, I think that’s the thing at the end of the day is just embracing what makes us different. Then look at it in a way that makes you see yourself and maybe others, but who cares what others see? It’s like the superhero powers that are within all of us. I think the thing that I’m realizing so much too is I have so many friends recently who have children who have been diagnosed with some sort of neurodiverse, like ADHD, central auditory processing disorder, different things that I’ve also been diagnosed with. I think for me, it’s really important because as a kid, I always think about myself and I’m like, “I have full representation. I am a white blonde girl, I have been represented my whole life.”
But there’s so much more than just how we see people about representation. I’ve never known people, especially as a kid, that was neurodiverse. It always just became this stigma, you’re not smart, you’re not trying hard enough. I always had to keep up with my peers and try. I think that’s where this perfectionism was really born in a lot of ways too because I was always trying to keep up and I was trying so hard to appear as good as everyone. But my brain was really challenged to keep up. As much as I would try, it was never really good enough. Now I’m recognizing that no, it totally is, but it’s just a different way of thinking. Then I can be a voice in it and to kids. One of my girlfriends, her mom is able to say like, “Look at what Annaliese is doing. She has a brain that works like yours.” It is cool to be that for somebody else.
Alice: That’s awesome. Yeah, I love what you’re saying about representation matters and how are we representing these things that we don’t see as well.
Annaliese: Yeah. I mean, there’s a lot of things that I talked about with my own personal. I had a breast reduction when I was 17. Again, that’s something that I feel is not really talked about. I think the combination of the neurodiverse and then the body issues. These are common threads that a lot of people have.
Mine are just specific to me and everyone else has their own specific things that maybe are dealing with different issues, but for me, it really has played a huge role in my self-esteem because I’ve always been told that my body is this object and I’m not smart. As a kid, that really plays on you.
As an adult, I’m re-wiring, I’m reworking, I’m trying to do like Ap_Unwritten, my book, I’m really unwriting. I’m rewriting who I am and what it is to be a woman, to be me, to be neurodiverse, to have a body that maybe you don’t feel 100% comfortable in, even though I’m fully represented.
I’m so glad that representation is becoming so much more of a forefront issue. But yeah, there’s still a lot of things that are not represented and it’s depression, anxiety, neurodiversity, the scars that maybe we don’t see, or the diseases that we don’t see. There are a lot of other things that people are dealing with on day-to-day that it’s important for people to feel like there are other people like them.
Alice: Yeah. I think you’re doing a great job with AP_Unwritten because you’re creating this book that is your baby, I guess, but as you were describing how you write and how you read this and how you do these paintings and these drawings and asking other people to fill them in or to add to it is making space for both your own representation of who you are and what is there on the page and what’s going to be on it from the next person, which I think is really cool. You’re actually creating a book for all kinds of different things to be on that page.
Annaliese: Yeah. I’m excited because it’s still so new that it’s been out but that’s the next step that I’m super excited to see when people are sending me the poems that they’ve written or the drawings that they’ve created. I think that’ll be really fun. I’m excited about the next step.
Alice: Yeah. That’s cool. We’ve heard about the next step for AP_Unwritten. What’s the next step for you? What are you doing next?
Annaliese: I mean, I feel like it’s funny with this book coming out, I thought everything’s going to slow down for a little bit. I feel like it’s been the opposite. I mean, AP_Unwritten has been two years in the works. I was like, “Okay, I’m going to take a little break after this comes out.” No, it’s the opposite. I feel like the universe is gifting me with a lot of opportunities. I do have a lot of things coming up. I’m continuing to learn, like I said, getting the brain scans and doing things that I think are just going to help me to continue down this path of being able to be a representation to somebody, to a group of people. I am excited to see where it goes. But at the moment, I don’t have any big next steps. I’m not moving or taking steps [crosstalk] or doing anything too exciting. But there’s a lot in the works at the moment, which is always exciting.
Alice: That is awesome. And Annaliese, is there anything else you’d like to add to our listeners today?
Annaliese: I mean, this is not a sponsored post or anything, but I know you guys are all about menstruation and I got to say, I am the biggest fan of period underwear. Invest in some, I know it’s expensive, but I don’t know if you guys have talked about it before on the podcast. I’m sure you have, I’m sure your listeners are very familiar, but that would be the one-period advice I would give to you. I think it’s a game-changer.
Alice: That’s awesome. Yes, I have tried it. It is great. I especially love it when I’m hiking. I don’t have to worry about a tampon at all. I’m still able to be in the mountains and everything’s okay.
Annaliese: For me, it’s like sleeping or working from home. It’s just like it’s so good. I mean, for me it’s like just our carbon footprint is lower with we don’t have all this plastic and whatever that was. But then also, I don’t know, I feel like I’m not putting anything in my body and I really like that.
Alice: Yeah. That is good. Yeah, for us, what our company does, it’s called Jubilance for PMS. It’s specifically for the emotional side of PMS, emotions like anxiety, stress, irritability, and gloominess. Hopefully, we could send some to The Bachelor mansion.
Annaliese: Honestly, they probably would ship it back because they want that. That’s the drama they are feeding off of. That’s why you guys all keep coming back to watch more of the drama, but yeah, afterward, I think people [crosstalk] we don’t get goodie bags or anything like that. I always imagined you’d show up at The Bachelor’s house and there’d be presents for you but there’s not, but that’s something that should be shipped to everyone after the fact legs. “Thank you so much for participating in your social demand phase” or whatever your edit just was, “here is some Jubilance to get you through the next couple of months as it airs”.
Alice: Yeah, to help you not stress. I just imagine a luxury tent outside, near the pool where you guys get massages and are just like, “Here’s some Jubilance to not stress.” But I guess that’s completely the opposite.
Annaliese: Yeah, that would be a different show probably. I don’t know what it’s going to be. But no, I’m sure a lot of– it is interesting because I have heard from many other girls, guys that have been a part of the show that they do struggle with anxiety and depression quite a bit more post-show. I think also the last couple of years a lot of people are just dealing with things and it’s been a lot. But I mean, that is something for sure. I only recently got medicated for like ADHD and anxiety, but before that, I could have totally used them. I probably could still use some of that. Let’s be honest. Yeah, anything to calm the anxiety, always.
Alice: That’s amazing. Well, it was so great to have you on today. Thank you so much for being here.
Annaliese: Thanks for having me. It was fun chatting.